討論逐字稿 for Becoming Workshop 2: What makes a relationship work?

This is the transcript and notes to our second Hands-on Philosphy workshop at Becoming, 'What makes relationships work?'

The transcript below starts at the end of the discussion at the Concluding Statements, which was where after a brief pause, all the participants in the discussion made a statement on something they understood during the class, or a statement answering one or some of the questions provided for focus.
After the concluding statments are the notes from the first part of the class.

Concluding statements:
-With the relationship identity thing, for a relationship to work you need the foundation of self on which to stand, you need self reliance, no man is an island. You need to be able to stand alone, you can't be needy, and there has to be, the connections you make, the networks, you have to be on the same page in your outlook of the world, you need to share all kinds of moments entirely, you need to be able to enjoy the silence too, and what makes it work, when every day when you and the other reside grow, and the errors are chances, the mistakes the setbacks are learning opportunities.

-I think for a successful relationship, it's based on you have to know yourself, then you will know your goal, and you can attract someone who has the same goal, and go to the goal together. And the mistake or the error is the opportunity to review your relationship. If you can fix it the relationship will be successful forever, if not the relationship will be broken.
-Be broken forever.....!

-I really like the thing Jane mentioned before, we are on a journey for me life is a long journey, what we are looking for what kind of person we are, i think that building a god relationship this is a good way, because we can always learn from it, learn bad things from a bad relationship, good things from a good relationship. I think we should, just like jane said, lower our expectations, make friends with different kinds of people, and find out what kind of person we are, and also what kind of relationship we are seeking, and help us to become who we want to be.

-What I figured out today is that at the basis of any good relationships for me, it is friendship. Doesn't matter if it s a family relationship, boss or employee, it doesn’t' matter. Its a friendship, like what everyone said, there's a sense that everyone knows where they’re going, and what is important to each other, and trying to respect and support that, and that you enjoy that about each other. And you have the reasonable expectations of one another. It's because you give each other the freedom to be who they are and who yourself is, that you can enjoy one another and the relationship.
-Wow, you just described my marriage, that really nailed it.


Notes from the Discussion:
Types of relationships: Parent-child
Romantic
Couples
Family
Friends
Teacher-student
Colleagues
Boss-employee
Relationship with self (self-definition, how you think of yourself) Relationship with classmates
Emotional
Customer
Intimate
Virtual vs. In-person
Sexual
Working
Mentor-mentee
Relatives
Siblings
Cultural
Salesperson
Boyfriend-girlfriend
Husband-wife
Hanging out
Friends w/benefits
Drinking friends
Hobby-related friends
Exploitative sweatshops, couples
Government and citizen
Relationships with objects
Pet-human relationship

Is a relationship two-way? So can you have a relationship with an object?
-Objects are made to serve our needs, especially emotional needs, so we think of it as a relationship
-Emotional dependence is a relationship?
-So are people only for using?
-That's one kind of relationship
-You can think of them as for utility
-Like the market society, what value can we get out of this?

Are broken relationships where someone is no longer getting any value out of that relationship? Or it just ends.
A broken relationships is there is no agreement about the state or value of the relationship?

Broken can mean:
Dysfunctional
Stopped
The one we're talking about here is one where it has broken down, stopped, the communication isn't happening anymore

-Couples can divorce, but parents can't.
-Are relationships only about fulfilling needs? Or are they more than that? -Are humans only need-generating machines?
-Do you have a strict definition of needs?
-Loneliness? Seeking company fulfills the need?
-Working for your boss for money, fulfills your needs.

-Humans are social creatures, cannot exist by ourself, have to coordinate with others for survival
-Relationship is people's social bonds to each other.
-What's a social bond?
-It's a debt? But that's a morally loaded word.
-It's an agreement?
-If it's just mutually self-serving, it's going to lead to conflict.
-Is liking someone else a need?
-There's different types of needs. A feeling is a need. In a relationships you need to feel something. An emotional need to feel good.

What's the feeling of 'let down by a relationship'?
-A feeling of uselessness
-Or used up
-Or used!
-Hollowed out
-The world you created is ended now -You're broken yourself
-You give your heart
-What do you do next?
-The end of the road
-You got to the limit and there's nothing
-A piece of your heart is torn out
-Hibernate in a dark dark grey raining place

What's the thing that breaks a relationship for you?
-Disagreement, accumulated disagreement, when you get to a level you can't stand anymore so the relationships breaks
-When you have different paradigms, you realize you're not in the same world
-It has to do with the context in which you know this person, if you have no context in common, it's easier to completely separate

-It's the difference between being in a community or being alone. The community tends to keep relationships together even when they're broken.
-Friends often choose sides, your own friends might see objectively

-Friendships are about a sense of having things in common with people, a stage in life, a sense of moving in a common direction
-Maybe when you separate off from a group of friends, it's because the directions are different

A successful relationship is:
-Always finding a way to regenerate. It's a living thing has to be nurtured -Having mutual good feelings
-Also commitment
-What the success is depends on the type of the relationship

What's the feeling of success?
-Mm! It's here, it exists, it's reliable
-You're where you should be. Don't have to think about it that much
-Take it for granted?
-You're in 'the zone'
-The relationship has a positive influence on both peoples' lives
-Helps support both people toward their goals.
-Mutually reinforcing or expanding
-It's fun!
-It's automatically satisfying
-It's dependent on having a good relationship with yourself.

-If you know what you want, you know what's important, you don't have to rely on others to fulfill your needs.
Didn't we say that relationships are about fulfilling needs though? So if you don't need them to fulfill your needs, then what are relationships for?

-You have to know who you are to know who you want to be with.
-How do you figure out who you are, or what you want to do?
-Actually you can know who you are and still not know what you want to do. -"What should i do with my life?" that's a book that may help with this questions

What are the things that makes a relationship happen for you? What are the things that make you move towards a person?

-People who are 100% connected or interested with a person, able to just be with that person. Can interact fluidly, or you can hang out with having to say anything. Never a dull moment
-Where you can help each other change for the better.
-Help you see things from a different point of view
-A coincidence of teaching needs, a bartering of needs
-Coincidence, period. You know someone, they can give you some different thinking
-When you stop being able to share new things that's the end of the relationship. -It has to keep growing.
-You can feel it when there's a slowdown in what someone is giving
-You have to respect each others values even if you're different

-Real friendship is not time dependent?
-It's face to face and far removed from the internet
-Really?
-Sharing the journeys, and you appreciate each other's journeys, even if you're not on the same journey.
-Because it's fun! You share similar values
-That's a successful relationship

What's your take on these statements:
“a mistake tells you about our relationship: it tells me what you’re not, or it reminds me why i should love you.”
“an error is a chance to build a better relationship.”

-It tells me what you are and what you're not, and i don't have to force the parts where you're not.
-They were always like that
-But you learn it
-So it's more about your expectation, so that's when you have a chance for a more successful relationship
-And you maybe don't expect too much.
-You don't have to assume they are more.

-If you can fix the error, the relationships will be stronger, but if not it'll be broken -But for me the error is your expectation. But you can fix the way you're seeing this person.

-But what about when the expectations fall away, and then you find you don't like them? -But i'm saying you were seeing some rosy aspect, and now you see the dark side. But maybe you have to just accept the dark side. Like seeing the person more fully.

-I think the mistake is a good chance to make you realize if the relationship is going to work or not. -If you're stuck in a bad relationships, you blame all the time, he's not changing, but you're not changing either. So the break can help you think it through, why can i not change? Or if you have too many disagreements that happen, you get to the limit, it's a good chance to break with that person forever.

-A mistake is a very good alert. To make you see the relationship, to make you evaluate it
-A signal

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